tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7712605235787438592.post7949133177136580792..comments2023-10-11T11:40:31.839+02:00Comments on Traiectum: Roman namesSmartyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03073053898035776624noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7712605235787438592.post-36164654807422573202007-02-06T22:36:00.000+01:002007-02-06T22:36:00.000+01:00Naah... he looks at least seventy in that picture,...Naah... he looks at least seventy in that picture, lol.<br /><br />I don't know if Civilis ever went to Rome. I can't remember reading anything about it in The Histories, and I don't think there are any other books about him. There should've been some sort of law saying that everyone who wanted to revolt and kill Romans should write a detailed autobiography first, in case someone wants to write a book about the revolt almost 2000 years later :P<br /><br />Tacitus does say that Civilis spent 25 years in the army, and that he knew Vespasian (they "were called friends", Histories 5.26). That'd be in Britain, right? <br /><br />He could've gotten the citizenship early since he's of royal descent, I guess. But... at the time of the revolt the Batavians had been living under Roman influence for about 100 years. Wouldn't his father (who'd also be an important guy) have gained the citizenship during that time (whether because he was of royal descent or by serving in the auxiliaries)? But then, if Civilis inherited it from his father we're still stuck with the whole Julius-Claudius mess again. <br /><br />I think I'll send an e-mail to the museum that keeps the manuscript, or maybe the university in Amsterdam. Perhaps they can help me find out who the fuzzyhead is :)Smartyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03073053898035776624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7712605235787438592.post-34451262674148729112007-02-05T15:37:00.000+01:002007-02-05T15:37:00.000+01:00That is confusing, Celede.
Though I'm not sure a...That <i>is</i> confusing, Celede. <br /><br />Though I'm not sure all tribal leaders who got the Roman citizenship had to serve 25 years in the auxiliary. It surely doesn't hold true for Arminius, who was a Roman citizen and member of the equestrian order, but only age 25 at the Battle in the Teutoburg Forest. There's no way he could have served his 25 years, lol. We can't even say for sure whether he came to Rome as hostage during Drusus' campaigns (and thus as child) or, what I think more probable, as result of the treaty Tiberius made with Arminius father after the revolt in 4 AD. Arminius did fight in the Pannonian wars but only for a few years. He then was allowed to return to Germania, probably because of his father's illness. His brother, known by the name of Flavius, remained in the Roman army and never returned to Germania.<br />We don't know the complete Roman name of Arminius - since he got his citizenship under Augustus, he would have been Julius Arminius. <br />I don't know whether Arminius' father was a citizen (I think rather not) but his father-in-law and rival Segestes was Roman citizen without ever having fought in the auxiliary.<br /><br />Maybe Civilis got his citizenship earlier because of his status as tribal leader? Or he did indeed inherit it from his father. Had he ever been to Rome? It looks like those tribal leaders who had been in Rome and invited to the Imperial palace, be it as guests or hostages, stood a better chance of getting the citizenship. <br /><br />Or some fuzzyhead has confused Julius with Claduius re. Paulus, after all, you say there were more with those names around.<br /><br />Btw, just for fun - but I think Civilis looks more like in his sixties than his forties in this painting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bataafseeed.jpgGabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.com